Mohan Sivaloganathan Part 1

S7E6: What We Can Learn from Younger Generations with Mohan Sivaloganathan Part 1

What does it look and feel like to build a world where there is deep connection between generations in mind? Where we can learn from the wisdom of younger generations with the same respect and reverence we do the older ones? Just ask Mohan Sivaloganathan an acclaimed TED speaker, founder of Harmonious Leadership, who builds systems of change every single day in the work that he has committed his life to.

In part 1 of this two part interview Mohan and Anika discuss how his background and upbringing has influenced him, the process of developing a TEDTalk that motivates intentional learning of the experience and perspective of younger generations and how a deep multigenerational connection can ripple, expand and  influence possibility and progress in a way that we can’t even imagine. 

You’ll want to listen to Mohan’s TEDtalk: here

Stay tuned for part two.

About our guest:

Mohan is a keynote speaker, coach, and a "recovering CEO.” Above all, he is a proud father, husband, son, brother, friend, and a committed challenger to the status quo. Mohan earned the nickname of the “Batman of Social Impact,” as an executive leader by day and keynote speaker + hip-hop artist by night. Throughout his career, Mohan has supported local and national organizations in orchestrating sustainable transformation and systems change for education, civic engagement, racial equity, and social justice.

Mohan is the founder of Harmonious Leadership, a movement to rewrite the rules for leadership and social change. Harmonious Leadership asks “what if” by breaking down the false choice between wellbeing and performance - an antiquated leadership ideology that inhibits people and organizations from advancing their boldest social impact ideas. Prior to launching Harmonious Leadership, Mohan served as the CEO of Our Turn, a national, youth-led movement working to close the opportunity gaps for young people. Mohan was awarded the “40 Under 40 Rising Star” by New York Nonprofit Media and a “Next Generation Leader” by the Human Services Council. Mohan’s keynote talks and thought leadership have been featured by TED, ESPN, Fast Company, Stanford Social Innovation Review, New York University, Good is the New Cool, Fordham University, Net Impact, Penn State University, Synergos Institute, the University of San Diego, and more.

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Anika

Welcome back to Root & Seed, a podcast about tradition seekers who are sparked to explore, define, and celebrate their family and cultural identity. I'm your host Anika Chabra. 

As we near the close of our season centered around the topic of “workplace”, we knew that it would take the learnings from perspectives like Michelle Bazargan in corporate, Peter Ahn in sales and Bobbie Breckenridge in social change to open our minds to the fact that meaningful connection in the workplace is multifaceted. Our final guest this season is Mohan Sivaloganathan, founder of Harmonious Leadership, a movement to rewrite the rules for leadership and social change, and an acclaimed TED speaker who in his talk “The Breakthrough Power of Young Leaders” unpacks the reasons why we need empathy for the upcoming generations as well as our elder ones… if our world… and our workplaces… are going to truly succeed. Let's listen to a quick clip (shared with permission), to understand why seeking to learn intention can explain how a person shows up, and how if we don't understand a person's story, we can't effectively integrate their energy into a work team. Mohan’s TED talk began with a recap of a conversation he had with his parents about his career aspirations: 

Mohan (TEDTalk)

“...my vision for my career was to become the CEO of Procter and Gamble.  And just like y'all we all took it in.  Took a deep breath. But I knew I could do it.  I have the skills and I have the ambition. I'd even taken the Myers-Briggs personality test.  I was assessed. As an E N T J.  Which meant that I was extroverted. Intuitive. Thinking. Judging.  Or some might call it the “commander”.  Studies have shown that ENTJs are the most common personality types among CEOs. So I had it in me.  And I researched, what is it that CEOs do? And I found a certain blueprint.  I found that they're Assertive. Directive. There's a real Command and Control to how they show up.  So I tried to apply that blueprint to my first job at Procter and Gamble, and I was surprised by the results. Because I was magnificently. Spectacularly. Failing.  The response to my “leadership” was so toxic that I was placed on a performance improvement plan.  You can't make this stuff up.”

Anika

If that's not dripping in good real talk and intention, I don't know what is. Spoiler alert, it turns out Mohan did figure out how to have an immensely successful career. So let's get into it. 

What do you want our community to know about who you are? 

Mohan

I love that. What would I want the community to know about who I am?   I truly love the way I'm able to interact with people, the joy that I feel when I hear incredible stories, when I'm able to build upon stories, and I'm growing just like everybody else.  And that is both something I would want others to know about me is that like, Hey, we're on this journey together.

It's also something I need to remind myself of more often, like sometimes to take the blinders off and realize, there isn't something that is about me that is either really high or really low. That just happens to be distinct from everybody else. I've got some unique capabilities for sure. I just equate it to the water. We're all perfect in this moment and ever changing in every moment at the same time.  

Anika

Mohan, you are speaking my language. I gotta tell you, this is gonna be as esoteric of an interview as you want it to be. I love living in that world. I might have to ground us.

Mohan

Everybody, like, light your candles.  You know, get some tea, whatever, whatever's the right beverage for you. 

Anika

Do some smudging! 

Mohan

Do some smudging! Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like, I set the aura. I set the aura.  

Anika

Tell us a little bit about the experiences that you have experienced that have led you to who you are today. 

Mohan

Well, it was, it's far from linear, far from linear, far from predictable.  Here I am as someone who has been in the social impact space for 16 plus years. I'm a hip hop artist. I'm, I'm a dad. I love playing video games. This is stuff that's not easily boxed in. It wasn't always anticipated. I'm the son of South Asian immigrants.My parents came to the country from Sri Lanka. And typically, the way that South Asian immigrant story is written…. Is you come to the US and you launch a tech initiative. Or you are a doctor. Or you start to own a chain of franchises, across the country, and that's how you attain success.

And that is incredible, right? So more power to those folks. But that wasn't my parents' story. Not at all.  They just knew that they had to make it in the US in some shape or form. They were inspired, they were motivated to come here in some form. There was some escape, particularly for my dad for personal reasons, for political reasons, to get out of Sri Lanka.And in many ways, to not look back, not in every way, but in many ways. And the way that they wound up making it in the US and creating this platform for me was through service. My dad was always fascinated with politics and majored in political science in school, and then he wound up working for the US government. And then my mom became a teacher and even with that, even with them discovering that path through a service, they weren't like, “Hey, like now you need to go and give back to the world and you need to go work in a nonprofit” the way that I have. No, they're like you need to find stability. We fought and scrapped and hustled to survive and to create this platform, this springboard for you and your sisters. So that now you can land a really good corporate job.  Something like that. And to be successful, not to just blend in, but to be very successful, and that's like how things started for me, majoring in engineering, going to work at Procter & Gamble, getting an MBA.  And the whole time I was dissatisfied. The whole time I knew there was more I could bring into the world, the whole time there was something that was frustrating me about what was happening in society around me with respect to inequity, and feeling like there's just a light within me that is not as bright as it can or should be.  And I think for a variety of reasons, it wasn't just one thing, but there were multiple things that ultimately led me to a crossroads moment where I had to choose between an incredible opportunity at Procter & Gamble. It was a promotion opportunity or to jump in the fight to bring about education justice, and to bring more talented people into classrooms. And I chose the latter and burned that bridge behind me. I haven't turned back and I couldn't be happier with that choice. Couldn't be happier.

I still discover so much purpose and forward motion and creativity in this work every day. And it's just not what's expected for a guy who looks like me. Who has the background that I have and like, isn't that the beauty of it? Right? Isn't that the beauty? Isn't that, isn't that the joy?

And I just really enjoy particularly talking with young people, who have had the privilege of working with over the past several years, high schoolers, college students, day in, day out, who very much recognize that the path is not linear. It should not have to be linear. And how do you, how do you leverage that?

It's really cool to be in this space now where I can really lean into my story with pride. Because I know that other folks are paying attention and it's not just going to be like a linear progression of steps for them. They're going to do something that's far more dynamic. 

Anika

Let's just jump into your TED Talk. I am sorry, I was going to ease in. I was going to talk about your background.   I've watched it a few times. I won't lie. And people should all watch it a few times.  Talk to me a little bit about  the background behind it. Was there this sense of  “I want to do a TED talk, I got to find a topic” or was there a burning desire in you to get this type of message out no matter what the medium? Talk a little bit about the process that went behind that. 

Mohan

Well, thank you for watching.I appreciate the kind words. It’s been quite the process for me. Since I was young I've always enjoyed being on the stage. There's something about it. I love that expression of creativity. I've always enjoyed storytelling, delivering stories, receiving stories.

I believe that it's a powerful space, and I think you know this well, given the work that you do, to be able to shift hearts and minds in really powerful ways.  We need that. We need to activate all sides of our soul, right? We need to activate all sides of our brain. I can remember going back to middle school  watching music videos and being in my living room playing out the choreography and envisioning myself on stages.

So with that, when this opportunity came around to potentially be a part of a cohort of people who are working in the education space, to deliver a TED talk, not a TEDx, but an actual TED talk at their headquarters. I had to go after it and shout out to Education Leaders of Color, the community that I'm a part of that actually brought this opportunity forward.

Because while I've loved being on the stage and in all honesty, I've always believed that I deserve to be on the stage because I put in the work. I put in the work 100%. And I show up with my full heart.I also didn't think I was the type of person who would be chosen. I didn't feel like I'm the typical, “Oh, I've got all these titles and accolades and this and that”,  I'm not, I'm not that guy that they're going to choose, but I gave it a shot, like, and I started by just speaking to my direct experience at the time leading an organization that was elevating the voices and change making ability of young people. And what I've found is that there's a lot of wisdom out there on leadership and strategy and so on and so forth. But we really need to pull back this curtain around the role of young people in our society right now and what we can be able to learn from them. And so the initial idea was around this concept that “Hey, young people have a leadership blueprint that we need to be paying attention to”.  And fortunately, the TED folks agreed with that and they believed in that too. 

And then we got to work, it was an eight month process. Something along those lines from being selected to going through the coaching, the curation, weekly, almost daily work to then finally like delivering that talk on the TED stage. And the pendulum swung back and forth a couple of times in terms of where I was actually going to land this idea, and what I wanted to bring out into the field.

And like, a lot of it was like, I was trying to find what is the right harmony between this overall concept and the role of young people in all of society and then myself and, how do I connect to that? And finally, the talk that you've seen that others have seen now, fortunately across the globe, is something that very much harmonizes the role of young people in the world, but also how I have been influenced by young people. How have I become a better leader, a better CEO because of that proximity I have to young people. And I've been willing to pay attention. I've been humble enough to pay attention. I've also been lucky enough to not be cancelled over the past several years,  because I've made mistakes along the way, I've stumbled across a lot of young people who have been willing time and time again to offer me grace to allow me to make mistakes, to ask questions, and to just keep getting better side by side with young people, to be a co-conspirator for change. And it just feels incredible, I think, to have grown in that way, to be able to share that story, through the (TED)talk. And now to be hearing from such an incredibly diverse array of people, leaders like yourself, who are thinking about multi-generational influence and impact in this story that we're going to be able to tell for a long time.

Someone I just heard from who is a leader in a community college out in Arizona, talking to folks at Columbia University, talking to folks in philanthropy, in the corporate space. People from so many different directions who are leaning in. I want to learn more. Like, tell me more… and to do it with this sense of hope, as opposed to what I've heard from so many folks over the past few years, this almost frustration, I don't know how to deal with Gen Z.

It's too hard. It's too complicated. But actually, no, there's a gift in it.  There is a gift. There's an opportunity for us. So that's the type of history or side of history that I want to be on. 

Anika

I love that. Um, And you say you were attracted to the stage. The stage loves you, Mohan, I can tell you that. You had me laughing, every time I watched it. You're really great up there.  How would you like to reimagine, connection and understanding between generations in our society? 

Mohan

What I've mentioned a couple of times here is the power of storytelling,  and I believe storytelling is such a powerful force to forge not just connection, but empathy, allyship, a real investment in others, um, and investment oftentimes in a future that you may not see. But to still put your faith into that future, to put your work ethic into that future, and to do that in a very selfless type of way. And for me, what has sparked me on that journey. In many ways it has been like storytelling across generations. I think that a lot of the times in my life and career, I've been driven, even though I might be doing social impact causes, I've been driven through this internal fire, this sense of ambition and worthiness that I have in me. And that's good, right? That's good. That's important. That's a superpower for me in many ways, but what I've come to receive more and be grateful for is just how much I'm able to do. That is because of the story, the journey of my elders and prior generations, the investment and faith they put in me, and now what drives me in so many ways. I tell people a lot that I don't care about being the king so much anymore. I want to be the king maker.  I want to be the one who's putting up other people on the stage, who is putting them on the throne. The next person who walks through the door  has it easier when they sit down at the table that I did. That's what I really care about. And I don't have visibility into those experiences without understanding people's story.

I had a conversation with my mom recently. We were talking about the TED Talk. And I asked her, did you ever imagine something like this happening? In our family? And what's really interesting is she said, for her and my dad, who passed away a few years ago, they knew success was going to come for their kids. They knew we were going to make it, they knew good things were going to come, but they didn't quite know how. Even if they wanted stability for me and my sisters, through that traditional path like engineering, medicine, law, business, which we hear about in the South Asian community so much, they still didn't know what exactly it was going to be.

They had a sense that, I might lead an organization at some point. But to be the CEO of a national organization that possibly influenced $53 billion in federal funding a few years ago, they didn't see that happening, they didn't see the Ted Talk happening, but they just had to take that leap and hearing that story that fills me with a certain sense of obligation also to my parents and to my elders.

I heard that from my wife's parents who also came to the country with nothing. And then when I hear their stories of what they experienced and all the sacrifice, I know the generational momentum that I have inherited. And now, when I hear the stories of high schoolers of college students as they're navigating similar spaces and sometimes the confidence they're able to show up with the organizations that they're launching the entrepreneurial visions that they have, that's how I know we're on the right track.

It's not about metrics, right? It's not about for me, graduation rates, the number of people who are landing jobs, their average income when they land jobs. No. It's - how do you feel when you're in that job? Do you feel like you can be your full self? Do you feel like you can flourish?

Do you feel like you have a multiplier effect in what you do? When that is the narrative that is played back to me, like, that's how I know the connection is there. That's how I know we're building across generations. And again it’s recognizing that what I know is what you're going to play back to me.And there's a lot that's not going to be played back. And I just have to show up with faith. I just have to show up  the right way. 

Anika:

Ok, let’s pause right there.  Doesn’t this interview leave you wanting to hear more from Mohan?  It sure did for us.  We will be back next episode with part two and here’s an idea - use the pause to listen to Mohan’s TED Talk. 

This episode was hosted by me, Anika Chabra, executive produced by Jenn Siripong Mandel and edited by Camille Blais.  Bye for now.

Episode Credits

Hosted by: Anika Chabra

Brought to you by: Root & Seed

Executive Producer: Jennifer Siripong Mandel

Sound Editing by: Camille Blais

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